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monthly leaderboard info
08-28-2014, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2014 06:53 PM by FirstaidkiT.)
Post: #31
RE: monthly leaderboard info
Hello,
for me better solution this problem is add some clan ranking(hm but dont know that maybe all members some average stats). Second idea to improve mode clan(everyone can join without any permission)Smiley_BigGrin
regards FirstaidkiT

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08-28-2014, 06:56 PM
Post: #32
RE: monthly leaderboard info
Ok, time to weigh in again I guess.

- "A system that CANT LET YOU login with the same IP address" - This would help combat boosting but it wouldn't stop it completely and it punishes a lot of people who play legitimately. It would be really annoying if you couldn't even play against someone on the same network as you.

- "I hope they will remove this monthly LB" - The reason we added it was to try and add a bit more of a competitive interest, particularly for newer players who would see the leaderboard and know that they have no chance of ever getting onto it. Unfortunately it does look like the boosters are ruining that idea.

- "This is why XP need to be removed from LeaderBoard by Donkins" - We have put a lot of thought into how to improve this recently. A LOT! Any system where we use some combination of the current stats (k/d, win/loss, xp, total kills, etc) still doesn't really work since the boosters will be top of those as well. The best way to do a truly skill-based leaderboard is using some sort of ELO system. What this would do is give you a score and if you beat someone else your score increases. But the amount it increases depends on the score of your opponent, so if you beat a high ranking opponent your score goes up by more than if you beat a low ranking opponent. On the face of it this sounds great and surely would accurately measure skill but we still have a similar problem with boosters. Sure, they're not going to be playing against high ranking opponents so their gains will be low but the sheer volume they play will make up for that and they will likely still have high ranks. Then there is the issue of having to include an entirely new stat in the game in order to implement such a leaderboard - it would be confusing to players and difficult to explain exactly what it meant and how it was calculated. Not to mention the fact that ELO works best in a 1v1 game, how would it work in 3v3? Take the average rank of your opponents and calculate it based on that is one way. It's something we're still thinking about but it has a large number of problems with it.

- "so at the end of the day there is still no punishment to those that obviously cheats." - This one is perhaps more difficult than you imagine. You say 'obviously cheats' but in reality it is very difficult to prove. If someone is playing against a guest over and over again and winning every time that is suspicious but it isn't proof. We can look at an account and see that they earned 100k XP and a day and say "There's no way you can earn that amount of XP, they must be cheating!" but how do we decide the exact amount that is deemed 'too much' to have earned legitimately? Also, boosting is highly frowned upon but it's not strictly cheating. Rather than banning people for this kind of behaviour, the better option is to try to prevent it being possible in the first place. But how do we do that? Realistically if people want to play in this way there isn't a huge amount we could do to stop it and any measures that would help slow it tend to punish the majority of players - the ones who aren't boosting. We could block people playing with the same IP but as discussed above this isn't a good solution. We could check if someone is playing against the same person over and over and winning all the time but again, how many wins is too many? 10? 50? And then if we stop people from playing against the same opponent because we have decided they are boosting what's stopping them just quitting that game and starting a new one? And if we stop them playing temporarily again there is the danger that we are punishing people who are just playing against a friend and beating them over and over. Let's say for example we set 10 wins against the same opponent = boosting - as soon as someone knows that this system exists then they simply play 9 games, leave the game and start a new one and they beat the system. If anyone can come up with a foolproof method then we are all ears but we can't think of one.

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08-28-2014, 08:20 PM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2014 09:30 PM by Meir.)
Post: #33
RE: monthly leaderboard info
(08-28-2014 06:56 PM)Rob Donkin Wrote:  The best way to do a truly skill-based leaderboard is using some sort of ELO system. What this would do is give you a score and if you beat someone else your score increases. But the amount it increases depends on the score of your opponent, so if you beat a high ranking opponent your score goes up by more than if you beat a low ranking opponent. On the face of it this sounds great and surely would accurately measure skill but we still have a similar problem with boosters. Sure, they're not going to be playing against high ranking opponents so their gains will be low but the sheer volume they play will make up for that and they will likely still have high ranks. Then there is the issue of having to include an entirely new stat in the game in order to implement such a leaderboard - it would be confusing to players and difficult to explain exactly what it meant and how it was calculated. Not to mention the fact that ELO works best in a 1v1 game, how would it work in 3v3? Take the average rank of your opponents and calculate it based on that is one way. It's something we're still thinking about but it has a large number of problems with it.

I suggested that in the past (the "rating" thread) and I think this is the only way to make this game not getting boring. There will always be a target to be the highest in the skilled leaderboard, which will be hard because high rating players are skilled and you have to play against them to get higher. The highest ELO rating you can win or lose in one game is 32. If you play against the same rating as yours the winner will win 16 and the defeated will lose 16, you know that system... Now about the boosters, obviously you can't get rating from guests. let's say a booster make another account and play against himself and winning, at the first game he'll get 16 ELO rating (0 vs 0). at the second game he should win 50% lower rating and not because it's 16 against 0, it's not that big difference, but because it's the same player. It should be lower and lower as more as you play against the same player at the same day. So let's say the booster won 16 at the first game, at the second he will win only 8, and on the third 4 until it gets to 0. It will be very hard for boosters to get high rating with this system. So now his ELO rating is 28-30, he make another account? or wait to the next day? at both situations the rating of those acocunts are 0 and the difference is 30-0, the rating he will win now will be only about 10, at the second game about 5 or less. in this way the boosters will never reach high ELO rating, they will have to play against real opponents that have their rating or higher. All what I said until now about the boosters can be blocked with IP system, the system identify the IP of the players, if it's the same IP the rating will not change. Now boosters will have to play on 2 different computers? even harder.
In addition to everything, every player will have a rating profile history of wins and loses, and the recent 10 games details. That system will not only prevent boosters, it will also make players that whenever start playing this game to have the chance to be 1st on the skill lb. a few years ago I played on an online games site with this system, they have 10+ games and I reached to 1st on the rating leaderboard on 3 games, and it was 10 years after the games site was made. It means that you can be on skill lb at any time you started playing, unlike the xp lb that is based on time played. To make this ELO a real skill system, I think it must be played on skill mode (just my opinion).
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08-28-2014, 09:17 PM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2014 10:43 PM by SenSei.)
Post: #34
RE: monthly leaderboard info
(08-28-2014 06:56 PM)Rob Donkin Wrote:  how do we decide the exact amount that is deemed 'too much' to have earned legitimately?

for evry person earning data is different ,i alwys been LB player so most of the time i faced good opponents
because they alwys look for me ,but its not alwys the same case with me sometimes i earn more ,somtime less
but some one cross that limit of earning for example poplumusha doing insane kills like 400kills in 4 hours ,i would like to know how? even 1min/1kill is not possible in any game mode unless he comes to forum & give explanation.
If there is no punishment, there will be no fear ,we will have more cheaters,
after reading your reply i understand now ,how hard to determine & how easy to make assumption about some-one so i will not ask you to bann them but send flashing warnings after every game ,same like in guest mode where system ask for registration & warning will only be removed when he contacts you & give explanation , if warnings not effective enough then add 5 min. break between 2 games that should be effective,
at least this way cheater will know staff do take action.

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08-28-2014, 09:58 PM
Post: #35
RE: monthly leaderboard info
meir made a good point , i actually think the ELO system would work.

In 3v3 there should be something like the points of evry player (16+32+16) example, and if u win against that team with a certain amount of points you get the points by who you killed, if you killed the higher lv u get 32 if u killed the lower u get 16.

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08-28-2014, 10:55 PM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2014 03:33 AM by troll2.)
Post: #36
RE: monthly leaderboard info
@Rob

i suggested on my 60 suggestion thread a new xp system , heres the suggestion , could work like ELO system

New xp system

Spoiler :



xp should be something hard to earn , and not easy to farm

so i suggest this new system


Σxp = xp on game based on the settings (100,150,200)




For guests:

a victory vs a guest should give u the lowest amount of exp for example 100 per game

a lose vs guest should be taken as penalty and player should lose 1000 xp

example

1vs1

any lvl vs guest victory total xp earned for match = 100

any lvl vs guest defeated total xp penalty = 1,000


for players

the xp amount earned should be counted with next formula

for 1vs1 mode (same for 1vs1vs1 and 1vs1vs1vs1 just add playerC and player D)

if same lvl playerAlvl+playerBlvl *10% Σxp / #total players for loser the xp earned should be 0 or at least Σxp

if higher lvl won playerAlvl+PlayerBlvl - (difference between lvls A-B) *10% Σxp / #total players

if lower lvl won playerAlvl+PlayerBlvl + (difference between lvls A-B) *10% Σxp / #total players


For 2vs2 and 3vs3 mdoes (guest will have value lvl =1 ) Now have a guest on team will give u more xp to earn if u won


if team have same lvl (ΣteamAlvl + ΣteamBlvl ) * 10%Σxp / #total players

if higerlvl team won lvl (ΣteamAlvl + ΣteamBlvl )- (Difference between teams) *10% Σxp / #total players

if lowerlvl team won (ΣteamAlvl + ΣteamBlvl )+ (Difference between teams) *10% Σxp / #total players


Example 150xp match

ΣteamAlvl = 15+99+199 = 313

ΣteamBlvl = 1+99+53= 153

if team A won =( ( (313+153)- (160) ) * 15) /3 = 1,530 , and defeated team will earn 150 xp

if team B won =( ( (313+153)+ (160) ) * 15) /3 = 3,130

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08-29-2014, 08:42 AM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2014 08:43 AM by megust32.)
Post: #37
RE: monthly leaderboard info
So how does this Monthly Leaderboard work out?
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08-29-2014, 11:31 AM
Post: #38
RE: monthly leaderboard info
Nice covering your backs Sensei&Troll but I don't care about both of you. Plopomusha did 700-800 kills in 4-5 days NOW,Sensei did it for 5-6 months BEFORE and no one complained about it. Since like many people said "we haven't proof they boosted" everyone deserves the same treatment. Everyone banned or no one banned. Sensei is not banned,Plopomusha mustn't be banned too then. If someone complains about Plopomusha,should complain about everyone,case closed. I let troll2 talk about my skills,cuz seriously I don't care,my name shines in every leaderboard,while you're a ghost,just good to go in matches AS A GUEST(cuz yeah,you're too chicken to use ur real profile named Troll2). About the ELO suggestions:there's a magic word but it's a pretty rude and its abbreviation is "bs". Leaderboards in EVERY game are based on kills,wins,points and not on complicate rankings. The only game I know which uses ELO mode is League of Legends,but that's another type of game and it's completely different from BEO.


Side note: troll2 calls me a booster ahahahaha. The magic things I did on beo 2 are fair,earned by using brain,hands and "pressing spacebar" as u define it Smiley_BigGrin Sorry if I have 6 shiny sexy millions near my name,this may make u jelly Smiley_Tongue

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08-29-2014, 11:47 AM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2014 12:20 PM by SenSei.)
Post: #39
RE: monthly leaderboard info
(08-29-2014 11:31 AM)Trafalgar Law Wrote:  Nice covering your backs Sensei&Troll but I don't care about both of you. Plopomusha did 700-800 kills in 4-5 days NOW,Sensei did it for 5-6 months BEFORE and no one complained about it. Since like many people said "we haven't proof they boosted" everyone deserves the same treatment. Everyone banned or no one banned. Sensei is not banned,Plopomusha mustn't be banned too then. If someone complains about Plopomusha,should complain about everyone,case closed. I let troll2 talk about my skills,cuz seriously I don't care,my name shines in every leaderboard,while you're a ghost,just good to go in matches AS A GUEST(cuz yeah,you're too chicken to use ur real profile named Troll2).

I alredy made my self clear ,even ROB explained lots of thing, have you understand any of those things?
i dont think so,

you just need some-one to hate on ,in early days of forum 1st you targeted albert then croco after gooner showed you exactly what kind of self-center person you are screens
[it also shows in each reply you ever made in this forum ]
not single soul believes you but hey if you want to waste your time calling me cheater ,its your time to waste
i just feel sorry for you.

@Rob
you read all comments ,you also know what kind of history traf has ,He is nothing but nuisance & should be banned permanently from forum.
the only reason i am tolerating him because he kept going on & on bs stuff about himself & me
he accuse me without any proof,i will not sit back take that from nub, its not just my opinion its forums general opinion about him.
hope you take appropriate action.

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08-29-2014, 12:23 PM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2014 02:42 PM by snitcher.)
Post: #40
RE: monthly leaderboard info
it is indeed hard to determine who boosts or not. the problem was there were no actions done to the one's that has been reported before (with proof that they admitted that they were actually dual logging in and was planning to do more afterwards) which is why we can see them running amok in the whole leaderboard now. why should they even think twice when the verdict was there is nothing that you can do about it? why should they stop when the ones that has been proven didn't get reprimanded? when they can simply dual log on their own, open 4 different windows do 1v1v1v1 and be sure that no one can see it?

so now we go to the options/solutions of this current epidemic.

i'm not entirely sure about this elo thing. how about the noobs? they will feel hopeless that they can never reach the lb right? and the highest level will definitely get piled? and as the boss said, it is incredibly easy to farm kills.


how about this.

since there is nothing that can be done with 4 games in 1 pc (where even installed games are having trouble in) why not force disable guests to play against a player that reached a certain level? this will probably affect me and other users who likes playing as fake guest, but lets say this guy is now level 99, the moment that player reaches that level then they can only play against players that reached a certain amount of level and the required level to play against will keep on going higher as long as the player keeps acquiring exp so even if the player does not prestige, he will be forced to play against a higher level player. at least this way the booster will have the need to make another account, boost it so he can boost again. anything to prevent them from doing it so fast.

or if there is a way to detect and force close a game whenever someone is trying to open a certain program (hax) or trying to launch the game on a different browser. (this is what they did on the server that we used to run, it force closes the game window whenever players try to open a certain program or trying to launch the game again, but this is an installed game) although i believe this should have been done already if there is such a way for a browser game.

then there's this other one, make private games viewable. i don't know why it isn't viewable in the lobby list, but this will help. put how much streak a player has on top of their room that everyone can see. especially in 1v1v1 and 1v1v1v1. imagine, they have to keep on making a new game, copy paste, alt tab. anything to just annoy them, make it at least more harder for them and make sure that they don't get away in the naked eye and while you're at it make a new stat. HIGHEST STREAK BROKEN, this can also promote longer games between friends. they used to have that on the game that i used to play, but they closed it. (due to the top players controlling the string of the random eggs to the most want/best stat items then duplicating it and selling it irl, dual logging in, and string upgrading of said items and skills cough* cough* ahem*) and they even have that on their leaderboard.

those are all my ideas for now since there really isn't a fool proof method regarding this so the least that can be done for now is to make it harder and annoying for them.

EDIT:

even if they make the sacrificial guest as the room maker the streak will still show on top of their not so private anymore rooms. it will still be known that something magical is happening if they don't keep on changing rooms. from there you can disrupt them or do whatever you can on your end or you can put the streak and the name of the player that is winning inside that 1v1v1 or 1v1v1v1. even if they make a new one and they keep on winning repeatedly on private then they would still be found.
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